Debating the "House Church"
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Subj: Home School/Home Church Date: 3/28/99 1:51:53 AM Pacific Standard Time From: himie2@juno.com (Leland Milton Goldblatt, Ph.D.) Sender: owner-Theonomy-L@dlh.com Reply-to: Theonomy-L@dlh.com To: Theonomy-L@dlh.com > Theonomy-L submission from "Leland Milton Goldblatt, Ph.D." <himie2@juno.com> How many of you Home School and Home Church? We do both. Just wondering your imput... Leland Milton Golblatt Ph.D. New York, New York http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/5244/ ______________________________________ submissions to Theonomy-L@dlh.com miscellaneous requests to dlh@dlh.com |
Additional Resources | |
Subj: Re: Home School/Home
Church Date: 3/28/99 6:16:45 AM Pacific Standard Time From: RevRayJoseph@reformed.com (Raymond P. Joseph) Sender: owner-Theonomy-L@dlh.com Reply-to: Theonomy-L@dlh.com To: Theonomy-L@dlh.com Theonomy-L submission from "Raymond P. Joseph" <RevRayJoseph@reformed.com> We have #20 grandchild on the way, from 5 families -- [one just married]. All are homeschooled, with 2 of them combined home/Christian schooled. No home churches. I/we do not believe in home churches. Churches are to be meeting in "public", the way the New Testament church did. For the Victory of Christ's Crown and Covenant Over this Nation in Y2K ff ... Ray Joseph, pastor Southfield Reformed Presbyterian Church SFLD MICH revrayjoseph@reformed.com http://www.reformed.com http://www.reformed.com/rpcna/const/ct_chp23.htm http://www.NatReformAssn.org/ |
Subj: Re:
Home School/Home Church Date: 3/28/99 From: Kevin4VFT@aol.com (Kevin Craig) To: RevRayJoseph@reformed.com CC: himie2@juno.com
Dear Rev Ray, whom I count as a friend,
A church building separated from neighbors can sometimes
allow a family to leave their own neighborhood and keep their religion
"private." Sometimes "public" can actually mean "anonymous." |
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Subj: Re: Home School/Home
Church Date: 3/28/99 8:06:54 AM Pacific Standard Time From: jmartin@etgs.com (John Martin) Sender: owner-Theonomy-L@dlh.com Reply-to: Theonomy-L@dlh.com To: Theonomy-L@dlh.com Theonomy-L submission from John Martin <jmartin@etgs.com> At 02:33 PM 3/27/99 -0600, you wrote: >Theonomy-L submission from "Leland Milton Goldblatt, Ph.D." <himie2@juno.com> > >How many of you Home School and Home Church? > >We do both. > >Just wondering your imput... The definition of "home church" is different from the definition of a Church that meets in a home. A "home church" is one in which the head of the household has usurped the office of elder/pastor. I can envision circumstances in which a man might be forced to assume the role temporarily (persecution, etc.); but to "prefer" placing himself in the office, having not been called to that office, is insolent. Did you mean "home church", or a Church that meets in a home? FYI, I'm very thankful that all eight of my grandchildren are taught at home. John John C. Martin submissions to Theonomy-L@dlh.com miscellaneous requests to dlh@dlh.com |
Subj: Re:
Home School/Home Church Date: 3/28/99 From: Kevin4VFT@aol.com (Kevin Craig) To: jmartin@etgs.com CC: himie2@juno.com, RevRayJoseph@reformed.com
Other than those duties which were unique to the apostles
and those they appointed (e.g., Timothy) to labor in the "last days" of the Old
Covenant, there are no duties of an "elder" which are not also duties of a head
of a household. *Every* man is called to be an overseer to those who are weaker and less
mature. Any family head who refuses to accept these pastoral responsibilities is an
insolent rebel against God's Commands. |
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Subj: Re:
Home School/Home Church Date: 3/28/99 5:11:27 AM Pacific Standard Time From: TomSmedley@aol.com Sender: owner-Theonomy-L@dlh.com Reply-to: Theonomy-L@dlh.com To: Theonomy-L@dlh.com, radical-chat@no-apathy.org, ch-recon@admin.listbox.com Theonomy-L submission from TomSmedley@aol.com In a message dated 3/28/99 4:49:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, himie2@juno.com writes: << How many of you Home School and Home Church? We do both. Just wondering your imput... Leland Milton Golblatt Ph.D. >> |
Subj: Re:
Home School/Home Church Date: 3/28/99 From: Kevin4VFT@aol.com (Kevin Craig) To: TomSmedley@aol.com CC: himie2@juno.com |
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I believe "home church" is a contradiction in terms, like "state church," or "family state." Agreed, there are examples of each of these entities to examine. |
The house is the foundational metaphor for the church, not the church for the home.
Psalm 68:6; Jer 31:1 The Greeks were reminded of this centrality in a way English readers are not:
Free Market Economics is *family* economics, as the word "economy" (oiko-nomos) means, "Primarily, the management, regulation, and government of a family, or the concerns of a household" (Webster's, 1828). Abraham, our father in the faith, was clearly a home-churcher:
Nowhere in Biblical Law does God command these functions to be taken from the Family and given to a "State" or "Church." |
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State churches, funded by taxpayer money, are terribly short on viability and influence. The England that produced such luminaries as CS Lewis, GK Chesterton, Dorothy Sayers, and JRR Tolkein a generation ago now has church attendance in the low single digit percentiles. The state churches of Germany prepared the way for Hitler's rise; govt. subsidies allowed them to continue even after committing the theological apostasty which lobotomized Lutheranism. When Hitler insisted on the Aryan clause, very few had any residual integrity to resist with. | I totally agree with you. And excellent illustrations, BTW. |
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Family states call to mind thugocracies like Indonesia, Russia, various African and Latin American despotisms, and Arkansas, where a handful of friends and family run a political entity as their own personal piggy bank. Unrestrained by the rule of law, governed only by family ties, these tribal mafias leave long trails of bodies behind. | I agree. No
Christian family can become a "state," run a "political entity" or
become an "archy" -- whether "monarchy" or "oligarchy" --
because Jesus commanded His followers to be "an-archists."
We are to be servants, not archists, not socialists, not liberals, not Clintonistas. http://members.aol.com/Patriarchy/definitions/archist.htm Wouldn't Arkansas be a better place if all the citizens were committed to exercising theonomic dominion, practiced hospitality in their homes, did not trust the Clinton regime to provide needed social services and public order, but rather formed a network of voluntary associations, and exhorted one another to Godly obedience "daily" (Heb 3:13) rather than simply going to Bill Clinton's church once a week? Yet I am not permitted to respond to your post on the Theonomy list in part because I refuse to be a member of Bill Clinton's church and Bill Clinton's state, advocating.personal responsibility instead. Is not your post unwittingly perpetuating the slave mentality of the New World Order? |
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The expression "home church" brings to my mind a number of semi-cultic or seriously deranged "Jesus people" groups. | That's too bad. The expression brings to my mind the early church. "The church in his home;" "The church in their house," etc. We shouldn't let Biblical phrases be poisoned by those who abuse them. | |
I observed and/or participated in several. These entities were bastard hybrids of church and family, maintaining a frenetic activity level by hijacking the binding energies of the family, and harnessing that energy to the patriarch's vision. | He sounds like an "archist," which Jesus forbad him to be. You're not saying that it is *impossible* for a non-house church to "hijack the binding energies of the family" are you? |
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These groups were quite attractive to the lazy, immature, and dependent kind of person who wanted to leave home and save the world, without growing up. | Obviously the patriarch was NOT preaching "the whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:27). Over the years I have given hospitality to many people who needed to hear someone say: "Leave here, go home, build bridges, and grow up." I would be very unChristlike if I harnessed these people for my own little archy instead of telling them what God wanted them to hear. You're not saying it is *impossible* for a non-house church to collect immature and dependent people and trap them in its charismatic religion and financial empire-building, are you? | |
Historically, communes usually warp the family structure. Most enforce a kind of celebacy; if you're committed to poverty and obediance, how can you be the head of/provider for a family? | I've lived in a home-church "commune" for the last ten years. I've placed Christ's Kingdom ahead of my own material desires, which I suppose might be called "voluntary poverty." I've had no salary, but I've lived in a nice 12-bedroom home, with enough donations to provide shelter for several families at a time. Sure beats a 9-5 job at Hughes Aircraft building weapons for the Chinese and coming home to TV and 1.8 kids. | |
A few go the other direction; in the 1800s, the Oneida commune practiced group marriage. In our generation, "Moses" David Berg required the husbands in his "love family" to pimp their wives. Prostitution evangelism. | CLEARLY immoral, and therefore an argumentative non sequitur. | |
A far more healthy world view embraces "sphere sovereignty" as the surest road to glorifying God and promoting human welfare. The father, under God, with his wife's help, uses the rod to raise his children in "the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Elders, under God, with the deacons' help, use the keys to control access to the table of the Lord and the people of the Lord. The magistrates, under God, and with the citizens' help, use the sword to protect the community from its lawless predators. | When it comes to attacking house churches, they are all lawless and dysfunctional. When it comes to defending the dominant institutional paradigm, everything works smoothly "under God." | |
"Under God" are key words. None of these entities is a god unto itself. | Yes. It is an unChristian form of argument to suggest that all house-churches are not "under God." | |
Trying to coopt the functions of another sphere is tampering with the sovereignty of the God who has delegated separate tasks to separate corporate entities. | All these "spheres" were originally entrusted to the Family, from Adam to Noah. These spheres were entrusted to Moses only because of the hardness of the hearts of Israel, who in a slavelike manner refused to discharge their responsibilities. Nowhere in Scripture does God "delegate" "civil" or "ecclesiastical" functions to the non-familial "State" or "church." The creation of "the State" was an act of rebellion and a rejection of God (1 Sam 8). The Levitical "church" was a pedagogical system, abolished in AD 70 (Gal. 3:21 - 4:9). | |
For example, when the state becomes educator, the compliant family is reduced in its integrity, power, and respect. A consistent Christian cannot support public education. | A consistent
Christian cannot support public anything. "The public" (i.e., the Empire) does not produce anything, but lives on theft. |
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Still, a qualification for being an elder is "given to hospitality." An elder can be expected to convene small group meetings in his home. Thus, we have the intimacy of the small group, while honoring the "checks and balances" of the whole church. | I must not understand what you just said, because it sounds like a description of a house-church. | |
Have I sufficiently addressed the
question? Tom Smedley it ürür kervan yürür! submissions to Theonomy-L@dlh.com miscellaneous requests to dlh@dlh.com |
Pardon me? :-) |
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